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Post by Deleted on Aug 3, 2014 13:39:53 GMT -6
!00 years ago tomorrow WW1 started. It was a terrible war, and by its end in 1918, changed the world. I for one will take a small drink in memory of those who gave their lives. 100 years? Not so very long. As a kid at school I remember a couple of our teachers were veterans of the first war, and would sometimes share a story or two. Never of glory, but of horror. The death of friends, the death of so many, often for a few yards of ground, sometimes lost again within days.
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Post by Pistolenschutzen on Aug 3, 2014 14:15:15 GMT -6
!00 years ago tomorrow WW1 started. It was a terrible war, and by its end in 1918, changed the world. I for one will take a small drink in memory of those who gave their lives. 100 years? Not so very long. As a kid at school I remember a couple of our teachers were veterans of the first war, and would sometimes share a story or two. Never of glory, but of horror. The death of friends, the death of so many, often for a few yards of ground, sometimes lost again within days. I was just thinking about that the other day, Tranter. Yes, it will be 100 years tomorrow since "The War to End All Wars" began, August 4, 1914. Like you, as I grew up I encountered and knew quite a few veterans of that conflict. Most of them were only in their 60s or 70s at that time. All of them are dead now. The last British combat veteran of that war (Harry Patch) passed away in 2009; the last American combat veteran, and the last surviving combat veteran of World War I as well (Fred Buckles), died in 2011. Thus The Great War has truly passed into the realm of history forever. Sadly, within only a few years, perhaps by 2030 or so, the last of the World War II veterans will be gone as well. I wonder if folks 100 years from now in either of our countries will remember the sacrifices they made to preserve our way of life. Somehow I doubt it. The world wars will be little more than footnotes in a history book to them.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 3, 2014 15:15:05 GMT -6
We still study and know of wars of two thousand years ago, so why not?
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Post by Pistolenschutzen on Aug 3, 2014 15:48:36 GMT -6
We still study and know of wars of two thousand years ago, so why not? Yes, that is certainly true, Tranter, and to us those wars have no real impact on our lives, just facts remembered from lessons. Who really cares today how many Roman soldiers Hannibal's army killed at Cannae over two hundred years before the birth of Christ (around 50,000 as a matter of fact )? Yet we have no perception today of the impact that battle had on the people of Rome and the future course of their lives. We can't really appreciate it. When I teach U.S. history I spend a great deal of time on the Civil War of 1861-1865 because of its enormous impact on the subsequent history of the United States. Very few of my students though, can really perceive what that war meant to the people who fought it and whose lives were forever changed by it, nor can they easily understand how much impact it had on their own lives to this day. As one historian remarked, "The United States that entered the Civil War was not the same country as the one that emerged from it." He was very right, and I think the same thing can be said about the two world wars. All of us were forever changed by the outcomes of those two conflicts.
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Post by armedandsafe on Aug 3, 2014 23:53:47 GMT -6
Every war changes the society that existed before it, for those who participated in it. If you look closely at societal interaction and basic moral holding, before and after any "war" you will see changes in the basic psyche of a culture.
Perhaps the strongest example of this in recent history is the change in the basic society and culture brought about by the merging of the hippys and the Viet Nam war opponents. The hippy movement was an outgrowth of the change in parental structure of discipline after WWII. The hippys then inspired the anti-war people with their utopian rhetoric and "love, not war" was created.
Pops
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Post by Deleted on Aug 4, 2014 1:34:32 GMT -6
Pops, I think for many in the '50s discipline of the young simply stopped. This led to the so called hippy movement. As a keen student of history from a young age I remember looking at such people and wondering what planet they were from? I was perhaps over disciplined as a child, blood was spilt, I still think it was better than the opposite.
Getting back to WW1 however, today is the day. The Keiser promised the German troops they would be home before the autumn leaves fell. He was wrong. There are many services being held today, both here and in Europe. There may be no survivors, as Pistol said, but we will remember those who fell. That is so important.
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Post by Pistolenschutzen on Aug 4, 2014 14:51:28 GMT -6
Every war changes the society that existed before it, for those who participated in it. If you look closely at societal interaction and basic moral holding, before and after any "war" you will see changes in the basic psyche of a culture. Perhaps the strongest example of this in recent history is the change in the basic society and culture brought about by the merging of the hippys and the Viet Nam war opponents. The hippy movement was an outgrowth of the change in parental structure of discipline after WWII. The hippys then inspired the anti-war people with their utopian rhetoric and "love, not war" was created. Pops Quite true, Pops. My growing up period, my young man years you might say, were basically the 1960s. Like you and Tranter, I was raised in the old fashioned way, i.e., spare the rod and spoil the child! Though it certainly didn't seem so at the time, I'm thankful every day that it was so. The moral codes of a society virtually always become laxer after a war. As you said, history shows that very clearly. Note what happened after World War I, the so-called "Roaring 20s." After World War II, the same thing happened though perhaps not as blatantly because WWII was perceived as a "good" and "righteous" war, which was not true after World War I, at least in this country. As for Vietnam, what can I say? The war was seen by many as unnecessary and unjust despite ample evidence to the contrary, and the moral standards of the 1960s totally went to hell in a hand basket. I must admit though, the 60s were a most interesting time to be male, single, and possessed of a somewhat, shall we say, "flexible" moral character.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 4, 2014 14:59:20 GMT -6
One thing I remember of the tiny and brief exposure to wars I experienced was the demonisation of the enemy. How the horror stories of WW1 of murder of women and children, torture and cruelty demonised the enemy became understood by myself. Thus making hate 'easier'. The enemy was evil and even in some cases sub human. You can dehumanise the enemy, and for some that ability will carry into civilian life. I am actually not sure I am making sense, explaining myself very well. In my defence I still dont fully understand. I doubt many do.
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