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Post by Luckyn'nYork on Jul 1, 2016 3:02:01 GMT -6
Today, it began.
Geoff Dyer, in “The Missing of the Somme,” notes: “By the time of the great battles of attrition of 1916-17 mass graves were dug in advance of major offenses. Singing columns of soldiers fell grimly silent as they marched by these gaping pits en route to the front-line trenches.”
The casualty total for month's long series of 'advances' vary, but without a doubt, by any measure it was a betrayal; a betrayal of a generation by their government. Lost were a generation of young men; the concept that war could be a noble endeavour; and the blind trust of any people in their government began to crumble.
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Post by red14 on Jul 3, 2016 16:07:19 GMT -6
In many cases, it was murder. Simple unadulterated carnage. It was like the commanding generals were all consumed with a madness for bloodlust.
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Post by Luckyn'york on Jul 4, 2016 6:15:14 GMT -6
Not certain at all regarding their motives, Red. That they were from an isolated, very privileged social class can't be denied, though. The major field generals lived well away from the front, dined and socialized well, and had very limited direct contact with the first line trenches. The Somme occured in response to criticism that the Brits weren't 'carrying their weight' following horrendous French casualties during the preceding year. In their defence, commanders generally used tactics that proved successful during their previous conflicts. This could explain the sucicidal massed movement advances employed. However, the continued use of these tactics in the face of mechanized killing machines borders on the criminal, and Haig and his elite cronies should have been tried and hanged as war criminals.
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Post by shooteruk on Jul 11, 2016 7:44:58 GMT -6
I think there was 20,000 killed on day one. A general apparently wrote the operation was a success, the only reason we didn't advance further was that once killed, soldiers could not do so. No idea if thats correct of even true, but I suspect it captures the spirit of the commanding officers.
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Post by luckyjack on Jul 17, 2016 10:30:10 GMT -6
I think there was 20,000 killed on day one. A general apparently wrote the operation was a success, the only reason we didn't advance further was that once killed, soldiers could not do so. No idea if thats correct of even true, but I suspect it captures the spirit of the commanding officers. Was viewing a series last evening regarding the First World War, in which it was mentioned that the conflict was truly, the 'First' world war. Mentally I questioned the statement, for the conflicts of Britain and France in the 17th and 18th centuries certainly encompassed the globe, as did earlier conflicts with Spain and her adversaries. However, the narrator, as though reading my thoughts, pointed out that this conflict involved a total disruption of the economic and social orders of the involved countries, and even non-adversarial countries found their conditions disrupted in a detrimental fashion as a result of the conflict.
Shooter, your comment was mentioned, regarding the series of advances along the Somme, so it probably was an honest quote. However, from the journals written by the 'line officers', those who lived with and died with their men when the whistles sounded, it in no manner reflects their feelings regarding what was directed as 'their duty'.
This, my comment, offered not to disagree Mr. Shooter, but only to point out that there was a distinct difference between the 'privileged' and the 'non-privileged' - that what was evident in civilian life, continued to direct the life (and death) of those involved in the conflict. I sense that you have "seen the elephant" and have more than an average knowledge of history, and thus might attest that these differences are less evident today than they were, that certain traditions have been retired. If so, then perhaps the years have granted a certain benefit to those who serve today?
In the series of advances that became known the Battle of the Somme, over 72,000 men simply disappeared, churned and interned in the muck and mud; 72,000; returned to the soil. As a pale-faced youth I visited this battlefield, unaware of its history and misery. It was a strange experience leading me to return to the car before the others. I couldn't explain it then, but now I know I was walking upon graves unmarked, and although the sun was bright, I felt a darkness about the place. Haig's men thought of him as the 'Butcher of the Somme'. It was a title well-earned. His activities following the conflict regarding the welfare of ex-servicemen do little to appease the 2,000,000 casualties that fell as a result of his decisions made during the conflict.
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Post by shooteruk on Jul 18, 2016 5:40:12 GMT -6
Lucky, as you surmise, history has been a strong interest and influence on my life. Some find it odd, but your returning to the car rings with me. You see despite my interest I never liked the idea of visiting battlefields. There is no special reason but I suspect knowing the suffering has something to do with it. I did visit the Waterloo battlefield once. I was visiting an old friend stationed with NATO, and the battlefield was a stones throw from where he lived and worked. In fact the feeling I feared did appear.
I know your correct about those officers who went into combat with their men. They died with them, often in front. Brave men following orders. My problem is with those senior officers behind the lines. Did the enormous casualties mean nothing to them? An important issue for me is that most of the army were not professional, career soldiers but citizens encouraged to enlist for that war. The big adventure. The British had a professional army, arguably the most professional and experienced in the world at that time. They had experience reaching across the globe. Sadly it was small, and many were lost early on.
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Post by armedandsafe on Jul 18, 2016 23:08:27 GMT -6
When I was first stationed in Verdun, I wandered the countryside a bit. I found the gun emplacements and man made burrows interesting. The large graveyards did not bother me all that much, but I did not enter them. Then, I saw this low brick building over on the edge of a field. No display of signs or direction markers. It was about the size of a two car garage. The roof was only about 3 feet (a meter?) high. No indication of what it might be, so I investigated. As I moved around to the hidden side, I saw a small sign on the eve of the building, which was only about waist high to me. The sign: "1916 Sur le Terrain"
Then I looked in, through the glass covering the side wall of the underground pit the building covered.
Bones. Skulls, arms, hands, legs, spines, skulls. All had been taken up over the years since from this one farmer's field, about 25 acres (10 hectares) I estimated at least 75 skulls were visible, but I did not know how deep the pit was.
That did give me chills.
Pops
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Post by shooteruk on Jul 19, 2016 0:34:22 GMT -6
I understand Pops. Somethings reach us deep inside.
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