Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 31, 2015 3:44:14 GMT -6
As some will know, we have just marked 50 years since his funeral with services. Here is a picture I came across, General Eisenhower, Winston Churchill and Lt-Gen Omar Bradley shooting together. Three old soldiers, I know Churchill had seen much action, but wonder what the scores were? I am going to make a guess, from the leg positions that the two on the right didn't have to try too hard. Anyone make sense of that? Can you imagine Obama in the line up? Attachments:
|
|
|
Post by jwrauch on Feb 7, 2015 7:22:25 GMT -6
Interesting picture- shooting early versions of the M1 carbine with the flip up rear sight and no bayonet lug. JR
|
|
|
Post by red14 on Feb 7, 2015 8:09:19 GMT -6
That is a great picture. Churchill and Obama mentioned in the same thread? Talk about strange bedfellows! Comparing the former jobs and experiences of Churchill and Obama in preparation of leading their countries, is almost incomprehensible (if not hilarious). It has been six years, and I am still dumbfounded he was elected.
|
|
|
Post by Alpo on Feb 19, 2015 13:55:50 GMT -6
I wonder if they were just posing? That famous picture of Churchill with the Thompson. Looks like he is attempting to put the drum in with the bolt forward. In my experience, that won't work. So I'm thinking "posed". However, this one looks like he is gonna shoot. Bolt back and everything. That IS Churchill, ain't it? Don't recall ever seeing him shot from the right before (left is his better side?), and seldom without a cigar. But the suit and hat appear the same from the other pic. Anyway, if that is just a posed shot, that might explain Omar and Winnie just standing there. Ike, on t'other hand, looks like he's gonna shoot.
|
|
|
Post by Alpo on Feb 19, 2015 13:57:05 GMT -6
Interesting way he's holding that gun, in the bottom pic. Almost like there is a vertical grip attached to the horizontal grip.
|
|
|
Post by Alpo on Feb 19, 2015 14:01:38 GMT -6
It appears they were actually shooting. According to Omar, "Churchill confessed to an itch to try out the new American carbine. Targets were promptly put out for Churchill, Eisenhower, and me. Mine was handicapped at 75 yards, Eisenhower’s at 50 yards. The Prime Minister’s was placed at 25 yards. We each fired 15 rounds in rapid succession. Manton Eddy (Commanding General of the 9th Infantry Division) wisely hustled us away before we could inspect the targets." www.odcmp.org/0108/default.asp?page=CARBINEMATCH
|
|
|
Post by luckyjack on Feb 19, 2015 15:50:07 GMT -6
Interesting way he's holding that gun, in the bottom pic. Almost like there is a vertical grip attached to the horizontal grip. If memory serves, models prior to 1928A1 offered a vertical grip.
|
|
|
Post by Alpo on Feb 19, 2015 16:06:01 GMT -6
They came either with a vertical or with a horizontal But that kinda looks like it has both, like this abomination. A vertical attached to the horizontal. And that I'd never seen before.
|
|
|
Post by luckyjack on Feb 19, 2015 16:22:26 GMT -6
If I might pass onward, an antic-dote regarding the day-long services conferred upon Sir Winston's passing as related by one of His grand-daughters...
As the London portion of the honours ended, his remains were transferred to a motor-launch, so that they might pass upriver upon the Thames for final internment at St Martains, Bladon. As the line moved upriver, quite unexpectedly each and every lift-crane aligning the dockports began to descend from full lift, to horizontal, surely and directly guided by each craneman. This unexpected, unannounced tribute moved her to tears, as it was far more emotional and heart-felt than the hours of pomp and tribute, for it demonstrated the depth of loss felt by all, who were moved by his voice and actions during what became Britain's worst and finest hours. Even as she related this, her voice filled with emotion, and I too felt my eyes growing misty.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 20, 2015 2:02:43 GMT -6
I have read much about Churchill. I am currently on 'My early life' written by him in 1930. The pictures were taken in WW2 and yes they were all shooting. Churchill loved guns and shooting. He had seen action on the battlefield as a young man, even as a young cavalry officer taking part in the last full cavalry charge of the British Army. He remarked that the fact he came through such a battle unscathed made him think he was destined for something special. Later, he was taken prisoner by the Boers in the South African Boer War. He escaped and was pursued for many days.
Churchill was a brave and very capable man of action. In January I was in Germany when a German I was talking with accused him of being a murderer. Had I not been a guest I would have knocked him off his feet for that. Given the German leader at the time, the accusation was unwise.
Incidentally, I have also had the opportunity to fire Thompsons on ranges and they are excellent to shoot. The weight and slow push of the .45 makes them easy to shoot well. My only reservation would be the weight. I never had to carry one around all day, but am sure it would have got very heavy very quickly.
|
|
|
Post by Alpo on Feb 20, 2015 8:47:08 GMT -6
Notice the stances in the two pix I put up. Both the carbine and the Thompson, Churchill has his right elbow down at his side, while Eisenhower has his sticking straight out.
That "elbow out" stance is taught, here. Is the "elbow down" stance taught in England?
It could simply be that he was taught THIS way, but found that he could be more accurate shooting THAT way, but I'm curious.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 20, 2015 11:48:21 GMT -6
I was taught in three countries by three different nationalities, each taught elbow up. In the case of the picture Churchill has the advantage over Eisenhower of having seen action, and a fair bit. As someone who had shot at, and had been shot at I would say he can hold the gun any which way he chose.
|
|
|
Post by luckyjack on Feb 20, 2015 16:09:21 GMT -6
Quite right, mr tranteruk.
|
|
|
Post by armedandsafe on Feb 20, 2015 22:18:30 GMT -6
Cavalry training. Elbows down gives better balance in the saddle. If you have to lean one way to counter the right elbow extending out, the horse is apt to follow the perceived instruction and turn / move left.
At least that is what I was once told, back in the late 40s. Motorcycle messengers were given Cavalry training early WWI.
Pops
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 21, 2015 2:46:25 GMT -6
I have no horse riding training or experience at all, but what Pops said sounds reasonable.
Didn't Churchill write once that there was nothing as exciting as being shot at with no effect? I always like to think being half American he embodied the best of both our nations. Most importantly a love and respect for freedom, a hate for dictators and considerable personal courage.
Consider, a wartime leader happy to be pictured trying out smgs? I would like to see that with some of the bank managers we have today.
|
|